Reading Time: 16 minutes

Moldovan President Vladimir Voronin was the guest in an hour-long programme on Russian Ekho Moskvy radio on 4 January, during which a wide range of issues was discussed. The first was the secessionist Dniester Region; Voronin acknowledged that the initial catalyst for the dispute -pro-Soviet sentiments in Dniester, a desire to unite with Romania in Moldova – no longer exists. It is now a "conflict of interests", he said.

The Dniester regime lives off a lucrative smuggling and contraband trade and has no interest in giving that up to resolve the political problem.

Moldova is offering far-reaching autonomy, Voronin said, but will not accept federalism because that implies a union of equals and could pave the way for a Dniester declaration of independence. Ukraine wants to see the issue resolved especially as it is looking westwards, Voronin said.

Russia’s role is more complex since it has a military presence and a large arms dump and also a strong economic presence. Ukraine’s change of direction also raises questions for Russia. Voronin welcomed the fact that much industry in Dniester has been bought up by Russians and pledged that it will not be touched in the event of unification. Voronin portrayed the communists in Moldova as a progressive party of social justice – fighting not wealth but poverty, as he put it. He regarded the mass emigration of Moldovans in search of work abroad as a mixed blessing. Many come back with new money and new ideas, he said, but a particular problem is that emigrating parents often leave their children behind and fail to make proper provision for their care. Just 6 per cent of children in children’s homes in Moldova are true orphans. Voronin was also asked about a long-mooted plan to build a major port facility on Moldova’s one-kilometre stretch of the Danube. The first attempt to achieve this with Russian organizations had EBRD backing but the money got stolen and the plans came to nothing. But with newly-won support from Azerbaijan, the project is back on, Voronin said. The following is an excerpt from the interview, broadcast on 4 February with subheadings inserted editorially: [Presenter Svetlana Sorokina] [Passage omitted] The ruling party in Moldova these days are the communists, led by the president, Vladimir Voronin. [Passage omitted] Current state of play in Dniester dispute President Voronin hails from the Dniester region. From his residence in Chisinau to his family home in Dubosary is just 38 km. But he hasn’t been able to go there for many years.

We’ve just been standing alongside a map, and I was looking at this long, thin stretch of land that is the Dniester region. That’s where the Moldovan hydroelectric power station is. That’s where a lot of the industry is, the industry that once belonged to Moldova as a whole. There’s a lot of things there, but also a certain autonomous entity that’s already been in existence for many years. And somehow the Dniester region issue eludes a solution. What is now happening in the Dniester region, do you have contacts there, and what to do next? [President Voronin] For us, first of all, it matters that over 500,000 people live there. These are citizens of my country.

[Question] You’re from Dniester yourself? [Voronin] Yes, I’m from Dniester and I spent most of my working life in various parts of the Dniester region. [Passage omitted] These more than 500,000 people in the Dniester region have our complete attention and support, of course. There used to be more, over 800,000 when the conflict broke out 15 years ago. But people got fed up with living in conditions of constant threat, be it of repression or war or economic deprivation, and they started moving out. Many came to Moldova, to this bank of the river. Many left for Ukraine or Russia or other countries and so on. So for me, the main concern is the people who live there. To create proper conditions for them. Even against the background of the genocide and the terror that the so-called authorities in Dniester are carrying out.

[Question] Are Russians in the majority there, or Moldovans? Or Ukrainians or someone else? [Voronin] Moldovans are about 44 or 42 per cent. Russians and Ukrainians each account equally for the remainder. [Passage omitted] But I won’t recount the history of the place.

Dniester dispute is "conflict of interests" [Question] But Vladimir Nikolayevich, I just wanted to recall that in historical terms 15 years ago is fairly recent. On the other hand, so much is happening that people forget the cause of that terrible conflict.

[Passage omitted] I just wanted to recall that conflict broke out initially when it was thought that Moldova was strongly nationalistically-minded and wanted to unite with Romania. But the Dniester region is a kind of remnant of the Soviet Union, and the conflict was not so much to do with nationality but with world outlook, yes? Over there, they were against the collapse of the USSR and joining Romania. But now, you’re a communist and one could regard the communist party here as the main party if not the ruling one. And you regret the collapse of the Soviet Union. So all these sentiments correspond largely to what the Dniester region proclaimed back then. So what is the conflict about now? What’s the problem? [Passage omitted] [Voronin] Today it’s already a conflict of interests. Over the years various structures have developed over there, and they’ve taken root and entrenched themselves deeply and strongly. And they have their branches not only in the Dniester region but also in Chisinau and in Kiev and in Moscow.

And they have slowly, but with a firm hand, created a criminal enclave.

Through which huge sums of money are laundered. According to estimates by independent analysts, about 2bn dollars a year.

[Question] How do they launder the money? [Voronin] Through lots of things. Production and sale of weaponry.

Contraband in every conceivable kind of goods, from spirits and tobacco, drugs, medicinal preparations, pharmaceuticals, and much more besides. And herein lie their interests. All negotiations and all suggestions on the autonomous entity’s status get stuck on these interests. Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko suggested a settlement plan last year, and on the basis of that plan we drew up and got parliament to adopt – unanimously, by the way – a law on the main principles of the Dniester region’s status. And when we showed these principles for how we see Dniester’s status, Yushchenko said – listen, that’s more autonomy that we give to Crimea. That is, we give them all rights in all issues, completely, financial and economic matters, foreign trade, absolutely everything, administrative and territorial matters, public bodies, and so on. But nobody wants that. They’re all tied by and focused on those 2bn dollars, which bind them all tightly together. They’re not interested in anything else.

We broke off talks in 2002 because we realized they were hopeless and useless. We asked for representatives of the EU and the USA to get involved in the talks, to expand the negotiation process. We asked the EU to monitor the border between the Dniester region and Ukraine and then later agreed that the monitoring would apply to the entire border between Moldova and Ukraine.

[Question] To tackle the smuggling? [Voronin] To monitor the smuggling, primarily of weaponry.

[Question] So this is taking place via Ukraine? [Voronin] The Dniester region doesn’t have any other borders. Either it takes place via Chisinau – [Question] Or via Ukraine? [Voronin] Incidentally, we have a lot of smuggling as well. All the poultry and meat, whatever you want from Dniester, it goes via our territory. Or rather this bank of the river. I’m getting mixed up here, it’s all our territory. The entire republic is ours and it should be reunited.

[Question] Why doesn’t Ukraine do anything to stop the flow of contraband? Odessa isn’t that far away.

[Voronin] In the past 15 years they’ve done deals with Ukraine, with the customs service and other bodies along the Ukrainian-Moldovan border, and they share out the proceeds. On 25 January we should have brought in, jointly with Ukraine, a procedure for clearing all goods for import to or export from the Dniester region, with Moldovan certificates of origin. The two prime ministers – ours and Ukraine’s – signed an agreement on 30 December in Kiev. And on 25 January they failed to introduce this procedure.

[Question] Why? [Voronin] Various reasons. It turns out that this aspect isn’t ready yet, or that aspect isn’t ready. There’d be a blockade, there’d be something else. It’s all trickery. All these enterprises, the main contributors to the Dniester region budget, the Rybnitsa metallurgical works, the Tiraspol cotton works, the Odema clothing factory, and others among the biggest payers into the Dniester budget – they’re all registered in Moldova. All they have to do is obtain certificates. The others are insignificant little businesses that are barely surviving, so that a political scandal can be blown up around them – to the effect that we’re blockading Dniester. That we’re not letting them develop their economy.

Everybody sees this, everyone understands this but nobody can cope with this because these 2bn dollars have a magic effect. They all want to have a piece of this pie.

[Question] In other words, this money is being channelled to different people in different countries and therefore nobody is interested in stopping the flow of goods from the Dniester region, right? [Voronin] Yes, to different accounts, to different pockets. And these impostors from the Dniester region are using this money to buy everyone they need. [Passage omitted].

The measures that Chisinau is taking are absolutely correct and democratic, they have had no effect whatsoever on the Dniester economy. If we had blockaded them, they would not have sold 70m-worth of products via Moldova alone last year. What blockade are we talking about? This is rubbish, idle talk in order to evade key issues and a resolution of the problem in general. [Passage omitted] Politics of Dniester settlement; why federation is ruled out [Question] And now about the notorious events of 2004 when Putin’s visit was cancelled. I’m talking about Dmitriy Kozak’s mission, so to speak, when he brought a settlement plan in which Ukraine, Moldova and the Dniester authorities were to have been involved. Why did it fail? You were against the principles and methods? Why did Kozak’s mission as well as Putin’s visit fail? [Voronin] Kozak came to us and helped us. To be precise, he was an intermediary between us and the Dniester in drawing up such conditions which would have been acceptable to both Moldova and the Dniester region in settling the conflict and uniting the country.

[Question] What was the gist of it? Was a federation or an autonomy suggested? [Voronin] On the whole, there was talk of creating a federation. This is absolutely unacceptable to us. First of all, this is forbidden by the constitution today. Well, suppose the constitution may be change by a parliamentary majority. Still there are no grounds for creating a federation. In general, there are no grounds for this conflict except interests of different people, for an armed conflict which entailed bloodshed and killed over 1,000 people on each side. There were no conditions in principle. This is the only conflict which has no ethnic, national or religious roots. This is a conflict of interests.

[Question] But it is there, however.

[Voronin] There are no grounds for creating a federation there.

[Question] Well, at least in order to overcome this difficult situation.

Can something along the lines Moldova – Gagauzia – Dniester be set up? [Voronin] But the problem lies elsewhere. A federation is a trap. A trap because, after we sign an accord on federation today, tomorrow they will say – [changes tack]. How is a federation created? A federation may be created by two equal entities. So in this case we would automatically recognize the Dniester region as a constituent part of this federation. In other words, we would invest them with overall statehood. And who can vouch that the following day this constituent part of the federation will not declare its full independence from the Republic of Moldova? This is the problem. Nobody could guarantee this. The document we were preparing with Mr Kozak did not contain such guarantees either. We worked and thought we would overcome this but nothing came of it. And naturally the president of the Republic of Moldova could not have signed a document which would have recognized the Dniester region’s statehood de facto.

Ukraine’s interest in Dniester situation [Question] Up to the right of separation. And what is Ukraine’s stand on this? What interest does Ukraine have here? Has it any designs on the Dniester region? [Voronin] I think that Ukraine has a great interest. If I were in Ukraine, I would be guided by these interests too. The interests are as follows. Who would want to have a zone of conflict or an armed conflict, a bandit mafia-type corrupt formation on your state border? Nobody would.

From an economic point of view, generally speaking, Ukraine is equally suffering from all this smuggling and lawlessness that is taking place in the Dniester region. So Ukraine is very much interested and must be interested, and this is right. Also, taking into consideration Ukraine’s current striving to join the European Union and so on, everything should be transparent, clean around its territory.

[Question] So what is the problem? Are you lacking force or political will? [Voronin] Very many people in Ukraine were involved – and many of them still are in top posts – in distributing the abovementioned wretched 2bn dollars.

[Question] Even now, in Yushchenko’s team? [Voronin] Now too. I’m following their participation in the negotiation process.

[Question] Do you count on Yushchenko more in this respect than you used to on Kuchma? [Voronin] In this respect I count on Yushchenko more at least because Yushchenko is an incumbent president.

[Question] Well, I’m speaking not about his post but rather about his potential.

[Voronin] Leonid Danilovich Kuchma too never refused anything. We used to make very nice-sounding accords but they came to nothing.

[Question] Do you feel that Yushchenko has enough political will, willpower and potential? [Voronin] I want to believe that we will succeed in resolving this issue with him.

Russia’s interest in Dniester situation [Question] And logically the following question arises. What is Russia’s interest in the Dniester region? [Voronin] At this stage Russia has a limited military contingent numbering, according to the Russian side, from 1,200 to 1,800 people. This contingent is basically patrolling the wretched ammunition dumps. The ammunition has not been evacuated from them for the six years after the well-known decision by the Istanbul summit. We have two Hiroshimas, – unexploded ones, thank God, – in the Dniester region. So this is a very dangerous business. Of course, the military contingent is now guarding these dumps, and God help them to cope with this task so that nothing bad happens.

The Dniester region has been prevaricating about privatization for a long time but finally they divided it all up and privatized, apparently not without an influence. To our delight – and we are especially satisfied about this, I stress – the majority of these enterprises have been privatized by Russian investors. In other words, this guarantees that these enterprises will work and develop and won’t die or be pilfered as was the case here.

[Question] But I think you won’t kick them out even if you reunite? After all they are owners. Or are you going to revise the results? [Voronin] No, we are not going to revise anything. We said unequivocally in the law on status of the Dniester region that we are not going to deal with ownership issues. We will deal with ownership issues only as long as they benefit the country and the investors who put money into them.

[Question] Why has not the ammunition been evacuated for the last six years? [Voronin] We don’t know why. Different reasons are being given. Either that wretched Smirnov does not allow it, or there is no money for transit across Ukraine, or – the latest turn – certain Russian politicians are linking the evacuation of ammunition with a general settlement of the Dniester issue. If this Dniester issue will again drag on, God forbid, what will happen with that ammunition? The weapons that are being kept there were made in 1938 or 1943, there are newer or even older ones. This is dangerous. [Passage omitted].

There is a political problem there too. When Ukraine is openly stating its striving to join NATO, I think that Russia should think what future awaits this zone as a security zone for Russia and what will happen in this territory.

[Question] But Moldova is not seeking to join NATO, is it? [Voronin] According to our constitution, we are a neutral state. This is precisely what I want to say. Relations should be built not with the unrecognized Tiraspol or their leaders who are impostors. Relations should be built with us, official Chisinau and its institutions of authority recognized by international structures. Russia should build relations with us rather than some kind of separatists and God knows who. This process may be set in motion within a year.

[Question] Do you have the hope to meet Putin in the near future? Perhaps, the political will of state leaders should influence the process? [Voronin] Yes, true, I think this meeting should take place.

[Question] Do you think this meeting may take place this year? Have you proposed it? [Voronin] We have not proposed any date yet but I think that we will put forward this initiative in the near future.

Communism and capitalism [Question] To recap, we’re talking with the president of Moldova, Vladimir Voronin. You’re a member of the Communist Party of the Republic of Moldova? [Voronin] I’m the chairman of the party.

[Question] The party chairman. Can we call it the party of power in Moldova? [Voronin] Of course. We’ve been in power for five years and have a parliamentary majority.

[Question] So it’s the party of power. For example, in my country One Russia is seen as the party of power and everyone wants to join it. I think there isn’t a governor who isn’t a member of One Russia. Among the country’s top leaders, very many are in One Russia. To what extent does communist party membership affect career progression in Moldova? [Voronin] Of the entire government in Moldova, the current government, there is just one party member.

[Question] The Cabinet of Ministers has one party member? [Voronin] The Cabinet, yes. There are 15 ministers plus 10 leaders of various services and departments. Twenty-five top figures in all. Of them just one is a member of our party. The party has long based itself, and is developing and operating, according to serious principles and criteria and not according to short-term political gain.

[Question] How do you view the resolution adopted in Strasbourg, condemning communist totalitarian regimes? [Voronin] The resolution follows up, so to speak, what we ourselves did a long time ago. We had the first signal in 1954, when we condemned the personality cult, when we condemned what had been taking place until then within the party and the Soviet state. Then we gave our unequivocal opinion on the Brezhnev period of stagnation, then we – [Question] We in the sense of the Soviet communist party? [Voronin] No, we in the sense of communists in Moldova. Then we gave our opinion regretting how the party fared under Gorbachev’s leadership, to the effect that this led to the country falling apart. And on the lessons of the past, we base the activities of our present-day communist party in Moldova. Its charter and policy programme in many respects fundamentally differ from the party documents under which we lived during the Soviet period. For example, who could have thought back then that we would acknowledge different forms of ownership, that we would advocate a market economy? [Question] Exactly. Because communism and capitalism are different conditions. But you are communists governing a country living under capitalist realities.

[Voronin] You know, industry and economic activity have the same nature under capitalism or socialism. It depends to a certain degree on the way the fruits, the profits, of that activity are distributed. Our policy is to create a state in which there is social justice. We’re not fighting wealth, we’re fighting poverty. We understand that some will be richer and others poorer. [Passage omitted].

[Question] My feeling is that you bitterly regret the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[Voronin] I do, that’s true. [Passage omitted] Emigration and abandoned children [Question] Vladimir Nikolayevich, as regards the huge number of Moldovans who leave to work abroad. This incidentally proves that life here is still difficult, earnings are low and jobs are few. [Passage omitted] Is this huge outflow of Moldovans a catastrophe to you? [Voronin] Initially we viewed this with more pain that we do now. But now we’ve sorted out some of the figures – and there are fewer than half a million emigres. There’s a positive side and negative side to this. The positive side is that our Moldovans are returning home. With money they have earned.

[Question] To feed their families? [Voronin] Secondly, and this is very important to us, they’re returning with totally new qualifications and totally new skills and even, if you like, a new way of thinking. Many of them start their own businesses, and they thrive and expand independently and that’s a good thing. The negative side is not even economic but social – the children. I mean those who leave their children, often young and school-age, with grandmother or the neighbours. This is a very big problem for us.

[Question] They’re left without proper care? [Voronin] This is the most alarming situation for us. We have children’s homes and we allocate places in them for these children, so that they don’t go feral, so to speak. In all these homes, only 6 per cent of the children have no parents. The others all have living parents. But their parents do come and collect them, and at least they know that the children are being looked after.

[Question] I can tell you that there are plenty of abandoned Moldovan children in orphanages in Moscow.

[Voronin] We’re collecting them. Last year we brought back over 120 children, after collecting them across Russia and Ukraine. Our goal is to find all these children and bring them back home.

[Question] To recap, I’m talking with the president of Moldova, Vladimir Voronin. How much are you paying for gas at present? [Voronin] A hundred and ten [presumably dollars] per 1,000 cubic metres.

[Question] Is that the final figure, or will it go up? [Voronin] We signed a deal with Gazprom only up to 1 April. What price they’ll offer after 1 April, we’ll see and we’ll work on it. [Passage omitted] We have a joint venture called Moldovagaz, and the gas that comes to us from Russia through the Gazprom system goes to that joint venture, of which Gazprom owns over 60 per cent. I think that Gazprom should bear this in mind, especially since our profit tax is less than half the rate levied in Russia. [Passage omitted] [Question] How much do you pay for electricity, and is the situation with it difficult? [Voronin] An enormous hydroelectric power station was built not only to supply Moldova but to export electricity as well, but that’s in the Dniester region. Over there they have entirely different rules of the game, entirely different ways of running their heating systems. So we now buy in electricity, mainly from Ukraine because the price wanted by the Moldovan hydroelectric power station – which [Russian national grid operator] Unified Energy System owns – is twice as high as what the Ukrainians charge us. [Passage omitted] Danube port plans [Question] I can’t help asking you about the port of Giurgiulesti, your only port on the Danube. You have a 1-km stretch of the Danube.

[Voronin] Yes, 1 km and 100 m.

[Question] I know that at some point you even had talks with Russia on its possible participation in the construction of the Giurgiulesti port.

This would have had its advantages because this gives access to the Danube, transportation, terminals and so on. Why did this plan fail? Why did Russia fail to take this up and become one of the owners or the main owner of the Giurgiulesti port? [Voronin] This project was mooted very long ago. [Passage omitted].

Unfortunately, all those involved in the construction on this port turned out to be very dishonest people and their organizations unreliable. They simply stole the credits of the European Bank to the tune of 17m dollars.

They stole everything. I have been dealing with this problem for the last five years. True, our first proposal to the Russian government was to build this terminal jointly. It is a very interesting place from the geographic point of view. The 1,100-m stretch is along the Danube, but luckily for us, the Prut river flows into the Danube at the same spot. Therefore we can build as many port facilities along the Prut as we need because it is on our bank and we can use the 1,100 m. as a ship mooring and so on. That’s the way the project was designed and the way we are implementing it now. We made proposals to one Russian firm but nothing happened, we made proposals to another one but did not succeed. Finally, during my visit to Azerbaijan two years ago, I reached an agreement with the president of Azerbaijan.

Azerbaijan showed great interest. And now, in a month’s time, in March, we are commissioning the first stage of this terminal, an oil terminal. We will also have a dry-cargo terminal and a passenger pier from which cruises along the Danube will start.

[Question] And Azerbaijan will be able to use oil tankers there? [Voronin] Azerbaijan is going to invest about 250m dollars in the construction of the whole thing, including an oil refinery. We have identified 60-80 sites for the construction of filling stations throughout the country.

[Question] Is it a kind of bonus for Azerbaijan? [Voronin] Yes, it will be run by Azpetrol, the company which is investing in and building this terminal. In addition, they will be present at our fuel market.

[Question] What is your explanation of the fact that Russia did not want to take part in the construction of this port? Is it short-sightedness? [Voronin] I can’t speak for the Russian side.

[Question] Still, it is such an obvious thing, geographically speaking.

[Voronin] Yes, it’s obvious and strategically very important, especially in the context of the events that have been taking place in the Black Sea and the Danube. But the chance has been lost. [Passage omitted] Source: Ekho Moskvy radio, Moscow, in Russian 1706 gmt 4 Feb 06