{"id":102676,"date":"2006-12-09T15:35:00","date_gmt":"2006-12-09T15:35:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/new.moldova.org\/2006\/12\/09\/learning-from-estonians-to-deal-with-russia-interview-with-estonian-president-ilves-21193-eng\/"},"modified":"2006-12-09T15:35:00","modified_gmt":"2006-12-09T15:35:00","slug":"learning-from-estonians-to-deal-with-russia-interview-with-estonian-president-ilves-21193-eng","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.moldova.org\/en\/learning-from-estonians-to-deal-with-russia-interview-with-estonian-president-ilves-21193-eng\/","title":{"rendered":"Learning from Estonians to Deal with Russia: Interview with Estonian President Ilves"},"content":{"rendered":"Reading Time: <\/span> 7<\/span> minutes<\/span><\/span>

\nEstonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves has said that the main threats to Estonia from Russia were not political but environmental and particularly stressed the danger posed by the Chernobyl-style nuclear power plant 90 km from Estonia’s border. Ilves was interviewed live in Tallinn by Russian Ekho Moskvy radio station via link-up on 8 December. He spoke through an interpreter. <\/p>\n

Main threats from Russia not political but environmental <\/p>\n

Ilves, speaking through an interpreter, said "Actually, I am one of those who believes that a military threat [to Europe] is extremely small and the NATO approach some time ago, \"\"according to which one needed to prepare for a tank war, turned out not to be serious. There is a threat to Estonia’s security, no doubt, from Islamism but one has to introduce into the thinking about security the idea that very many security threats are linked to the natural environment and people. If we look concretely, the threat from Russia is outside politics. The greatest threat to Estonia comes from nuclear reactors of the same type as the one in Chernobyl, which is located in Sosnovyy Bor. The Soviet Union, some time back, used to save money and if something happens with this kind of reactors it will be another Chernobyl. This reactor is located at about 90 km from our border and if it blows up, God forbid, if something happens – this is the greatest threat to Estonia that could come from Russia, but this is not connected with the military aspect." <\/p>\n

Commenting on what could be done to reduce these risks, Ilves said: "Within the framework of Northern Dimension, which is a very large-scale programme of the EU, of course, it would be in the interest of Estonia to facilitate the stepping up of the safety of the power plant in Sosnovyy Bor. But I would also bring another example: Apart from Sosnovyy Bor, there is a general security threat from the pollution from River Velikaya which could kill Lake Peipus and affect the lives of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people who depend on it. Of course, Estonia, through the European Union, should help to tackle the issues of Sosnovyy Bor and the removal of the pollution. Based on the opportunities available, it does not have to be done bilaterally because the resources provided by the European Union are significantly greater than the ones Estonia has." <\/p>\n

Proposals to criminalize Soviet symbols <\/p>\n

When asked about the draft law criminalizing the use of Soviet symbols, Ilves said that as president, he could not comment on the proceedings of the parliament and offered his explanation: "Let’s look at this from a slightly different angle. During the World War II, Estonia lost nearly one-third of its population. This was the fault of both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and if one was looking at this from the point of view of Estonia and an Estonian person – this was perpetrated against Estonia under two sets of symbols. Why do Estonians have to distinguish in their hearts one symbol of totalitarianism from another? The results for the people of Estonia were the same. In terms of what was done to Estonians during this period, there was no difference between the Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union – the methods and the results were the same." <\/p>\n

Ilves said he had no objections to holding another Nuremberg tribunal on the crimes against humanity committed by the Soviet Union. He said crimes against humanity cannot be justified whatever symbols are associated with them. Following persistent questioning about plans to remove a memorial to Soviet soldiers from Tallinn city centre, Ilves suggested that he could instead speak about things on which he can have influence and noted: "In a similar way I could ask whether it is not a cause for concern that we have a neighbour who sees threat to its security from everywhere where there is democracy near its borders and who sees authoritarian rule near its borders as a guarantee of stability, and the price of gas in all these authoritarian states is usually lower. This is much more important a problem than one statue, which is not particularly appealing aesthetically." <\/p>\n

Russian-speakers in Estonia <\/p>\n

Ilves dismissed criticism against Estonia by a recent Amnesty International report as based on incorrect data and assumptions. Ilves said it was not true that Russian-language schools would change to the Estonian language: "They will not be doing this. It has been decide that starting in 2007 one subject will be taught in Estonian. Is this bad?" <\/p>\n

Ilves was asked whether he would want that 139,000 residents who are not citizens of Estonia left the country. He responded: "I would certainly not want for my compatriots to leave Estonia and they are not doing this, despite the invitations and calls to leave Estonia, which, for example, were voiced by the president of Russia. When someone asked the Russian ambassador how many Russians have left Estonia, he answered: fifteen – they want to study there. For some reason people do not want to leave Estonia despite the flow of propaganda which says how awful and bad it is to live in Estonia. Obviously, this propaganda does not work as people do not want to leave Estonia. Quite the other way round – many in Russia would like to come to Estonia. Why would they like to do this – one could ask them – if the situation here is so bad? They are not leaving for Russia, therefore the situation does not correspond to the image that one is trying to create about us." "If you look at what rights the population speaking other languages has in other countries of the European Union, then the foreign-language population in Estonia has many more rights than in other countries of the European Union." Ilves explained that the language test that non-citizens have to take to gain citizenship was an easy one so that about a dozen Belarusian students who have escaped Belarus have reached the required language standard in three months after arriving in Tartu. <\/p>\n

Ilves said that, in reality, it is the Russian speakers who are privileged in Estonia: "It is possible for a Russian-speaking person to get good medical help anywhere in Estonia but a person who speaks Estonian and does not know Russian would not be able to get a high standard of medical help everywhere in Estonia. Thus, those speaking Russian are actually privileged at present, as everywhere in Estonia one can communicate in Russian but if you travel to Narva, for example, it would be difficult to get good medical help without knowing Russian." <\/p>\n

Presenter asked: "Do you think that Russians in Estonia are the fifth column?" <\/p>\n

Ilves answered: "No, I think Russians in Estonia are my compatriots." <\/p>\n

Ready for dialogue with Russia <\/p>\n

When asked about reasons for tensions with Russia, Ilves replied: "It is strange that democratic states are deemed to be enemies while authoritarian – if not totalitarian – states are being deemed to be friends. It is interesting why this tension has arisen. I don’t know why it has arisen." He added: "I am always open for any discussions and I have never rejected a single opportunity for talks with my Russia colleagues when they are ready for this kind of conversation. Essentially, I think it is even easier for me to develop relations with Russia than for anyone else, because politicians could be fearful for being accused for their Soviet past if they do something. This does not apply to me." <\/p>\n

Queues on the border <\/p>\n

When asked about long queues of trucks on Russian-Estonian border, Ilves said: "The problem is certainly not on the Estonian side. The Estonian border guards and customs work extremely efficiently." He advised the listener to address it to Russian institutions because "our throughput capability and our high technological level on the border – perhaps among the most modern ones in Europe – do not cause any obstacles. We have very high throughput capacity." He added that border crossing difficulties are created when one wants to send a political message, "but the border crossing is not necessarily a political problem because a similar situation is taking place with Finland. On the [Russian] border with Finland there are very long queues and if it was a political problem, then certainly not from Finland’s side." <\/p>\n

Need for border treaty <\/p>\n

Ilves was asked about the need for a border treaty between Russian and Estonia, which was signed but Russia withdrew its signature from it. He said: "At the moment we are essentially in the same situation as Norway, which for 60 years has not had an official border treaty with the USSR or with Russia and there are no arguments about where the border should be. The absence of a border treaty is not a particular problem for Estonia." He noted that the absence of a border treaty could become a problem for Russian citizens once Estonia joins the Schengen agreement and the absence of recognized border may hinder its entry into the Schengen space. He summed up the issue: "In reality, the Estonian border is working, is working very well and it is where Russia wanted it to be and we agreed to this and came to terms with this." <\/p>\n

Estonian president’s insignia <\/p>\n

Ilves was asked about the whereabouts of the president’s insignia and replied: "The only presidential insignia, which is worn only at official events, is the presidential chain, which was stolen from the deported president of Estonia, Konstantin Pats. At present it is in Moscow, the rubies have been cut out of it. The chain has been stolen. This is the former symbol of the president of an independent state. Estonia is attempting to achieve its return. I don’t know, is it worth asking a thief to give back your property? If he does not want to do this, at the end of the day, you draw your own conclusion about the ethical level of this thief. What else?" <\/p>\n

Estonia wants democratic Russia <\/p>\n

A presenter recalled that according to polls, over half of people in Russia see Estonia as an unfriendly state and invited Ilves to address this majority. Ilves had the following to say: "I believe it is mostly in the interests of Estonia for Russia to be a democratic state, a successful state and a liberal state. I am convinced that in a democratic liberal state in which there is the freedom of mass media, the understanding about Estonia would be totally different. This would be the most important thing for us. <\/p>\n

"Of course we regret that this percentage is high but for our part we ask: is this due to objective reasons or is this due to how the electronic mass media portrays us. We would very much like for Russia to be a country were rights of minorities are respected. Where people whose names end with -shvili or -adze [i.e. Georgian names] would not need to be concerned about their destiny. Where after the third form children of the Mari people could study in their mother tongue – we offer our minorities the opportunity to study up to the 12th form in their mother tongue. We would like to see that Georgian children would not experience difficulties. These are the things we haven’t spoken about, but this should be the background to the issues we are considering. <\/p>\n

"My vision of Russia is actually similar to [Vasiliy] Aksenov’s novel The Island of Crimea: if the Crime had been an island and the Bolshevik revolution had not reached it, there would have been a liberal Russia of the Constitutional Democrats, the Cadets, and neither Tartars nor anyone else would have been oppressed and there would have been good relations with everyone. This is my dream of Russia." <\/p>\n

<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Reading Time: <\/span> 7<\/span> minutes<\/span><\/span>Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves has said that the main threats to Estonia from Russia were not political but environmental and particularly stressed the danger posed by the Chernobyl-style nuc<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-102676","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-politics"],"content_social_share":"Reading Time: <\/span> 7<\/span> minutes<\/span><\/span>

\nEstonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves has said that the main threats to Estonia from Russia were not political but environmental and particularly stressed the danger posed by the Chernobyl-style nuclear power plant 90 km from Estonia’s border. Ilves was interviewed live in Tallinn by Russian Ekho Moskvy radio station via link-up on 8 December. He spoke through an interpreter. <\/p>\n

Main threats from Russia not political but environmental <\/p>\n

Ilves, speaking through an interpreter, said "Actually, I am one of those who believes that a military threat [to Europe] is extremely small and the NATO approach some time ago, \"\"according to which one needed to prepare for a tank war, turned out not to be serious. There is a threat to Estonia’s security, no doubt, from Islamism but one has to introduce into the thinking about security the idea that very many security threats are linked to the natural environment and people. If we look concretely, the threat from Russia is outside politics. The greatest threat to Estonia comes from nuclear reactors of the same type as the one in Chernobyl, which is located in Sosnovyy Bor. The Soviet Union, some time back, used to save money and if something happens with this kind of reactors it will be another Chernobyl. This reactor is located at about 90 km from our border and if it blows up, God forbid, if something happens – this is the greatest threat to Estonia that could come from Russia, but this is not connected with the military aspect." <\/p>\n

Commenting on what could be done to reduce these risks, Ilves said: "Within the framework of Northern Dimension, which is a very large-scale programme of the EU, of course, it would be in the interest of Estonia to facilitate the stepping up of the safety of the power plant in Sosnovyy Bor. But I would also bring another example: Apart from Sosnovyy Bor, there is a general security threat from the pollution from River Velikaya which could kill Lake Peipus and affect the lives of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people who depend on it. Of course, Estonia, through the European Union, should help to tackle the issues of Sosnovyy Bor and the removal of the pollution. Based on the opportunities available, it does not have to be done bilaterally because the resources provided by the European Union are significantly greater than the ones Estonia has." <\/p>\n

Proposals to criminalize Soviet symbols <\/p>\n

When asked about the draft law criminalizing the use of Soviet symbols, Ilves said that as president, he could not comment on the proceedings of the parliament and offered his explanation: "Let’s look at this from a slightly different angle. During the World War II, Estonia lost nearly one-third of its population. This was the fault of both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and if one was looking at this from the point of view of Estonia and an Estonian person – this was perpetrated against Estonia under two sets of symbols. Why do Estonians have to distinguish in their hearts one symbol of totalitarianism from another? The results for the people of Estonia were the same. In terms of what was done to Estonians during this period, there was no difference between the Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union – the methods and the results were the same." <\/p>\n

Ilves said he had no objections to holding another Nuremberg tribunal on the crimes against humanity committed by the Soviet Union. He said crimes against humanity cannot be justified whatever symbols are associated with them. Following persistent questioning about plans to remove a memorial to Soviet soldiers from Tallinn city centre, Ilves suggested that he could instead speak about things on which he can have influence and noted: "In a similar way I could ask whether it is not a cause for concern that we have a neighbour who sees threat to its security from everywhere where there is democracy near its borders and who sees authoritarian rule near its borders as a guarantee of stability, and the price of gas in all these authoritarian states is usually lower. This is much more important a problem than one statue, which is not particularly appealing aesthetically." <\/p>\n

Russian-speakers in Estonia <\/p>\n

Ilves dismissed criticism against Estonia by a recent Amnesty International report as based on incorrect data and assumptions. Ilves said it was not true that Russian-language schools would change to the Estonian language: "They will not be doing this. It has been decide that starting in 2007 one subject will be taught in Estonian. Is this bad?" <\/p>\n

Ilves was asked whether he would want that 139,000 residents who are not citizens of Estonia left the country. He responded: "I would certainly not want for my compatriots to leave Estonia and they are not doing this, despite the invitations and calls to leave Estonia, which, for example, were voiced by the president of Russia. When someone asked the Russian ambassador how many Russians have left Estonia, he answered: fifteen – they want to study there. For some reason people do not want to leave Estonia despite the flow of propaganda which says how awful and bad it is to live in Estonia. Obviously, this propaganda does not work as people do not want to leave Estonia. Quite the other way round – many in Russia would like to come to Estonia. Why would they like to do this – one could ask them – if the situation here is so bad? They are not leaving for Russia, therefore the situation does not correspond to the image that one is trying to create about us." "If you look at what rights the population speaking other languages has in other countries of the European Union, then the foreign-language population in Estonia has many more rights than in other countries of the European Union." Ilves explained that the language test that non-citizens have to take to gain citizenship was an easy one so that about a dozen Belarusian students who have escaped Belarus have reached the required language standard in three months after arriving in Tartu. <\/p>\n

Ilves said that, in reality, it is the Russian speakers who are privileged in Estonia: "It is possible for a Russian-speaking person to get good medical help anywhere in Estonia but a person who speaks Estonian and does not know Russian would not be able to get a high standard of medical help everywhere in Estonia. Thus, those speaking Russian are actually privileged at present, as everywhere in Estonia one can communicate in Russian but if you travel to Narva, for example, it would be difficult to get good medical help without knowing Russian." <\/p>\n

Presenter asked: "Do you think that Russians in Estonia are the fifth column?" <\/p>\n

Ilves answered: "No, I think Russians in Estonia are my compatriots." <\/p>\n

Ready for dialogue with Russia <\/p>\n

When asked about reasons for tensions with Russia, Ilves replied: "It is strange that democratic states are deemed to be enemies while authoritarian – if not totalitarian – states are being deemed to be friends. It is interesting why this tension has arisen. I don’t know why it has arisen." He added: "I am always open for any discussions and I have never rejected a single opportunity for talks with my Russia colleagues when they are ready for this kind of conversation. Essentially, I think it is even easier for me to develop relations with Russia than for anyone else, because politicians could be fearful for being accused for their Soviet past if they do something. This does not apply to me." <\/p>\n

Queues on the border <\/p>\n

When asked about long queues of trucks on Russian-Estonian border, Ilves said: "The problem is certainly not on the Estonian side. The Estonian border guards and customs work extremely efficiently." He advised the listener to address it to Russian institutions because "our throughput capability and our high technological level on the border – perhaps among the most modern ones in Europe – do not cause any obstacles. We have very high throughput capacity." He added that border crossing difficulties are created when one wants to send a political message, "but the border crossing is not necessarily a political problem because a similar situation is taking place with Finland. On the [Russian] border with Finland there are very long queues and if it was a political problem, then certainly not from Finland’s side." <\/p>\n

Need for border treaty <\/p>\n

Ilves was asked about the need for a border treaty between Russian and Estonia, which was signed but Russia withdrew its signature from it. He said: "At the moment we are essentially in the same situation as Norway, which for 60 years has not had an official border treaty with the USSR or with Russia and there are no arguments about where the border should be. The absence of a border treaty is not a particular problem for Estonia." He noted that the absence of a border treaty could become a problem for Russian citizens once Estonia joins the Schengen agreement and the absence of recognized border may hinder its entry into the Schengen space. He summed up the issue: "In reality, the Estonian border is working, is working very well and it is where Russia wanted it to be and we agreed to this and came to terms with this." <\/p>\n

Estonian president’s insignia <\/p>\n

Ilves was asked about the whereabouts of the president’s insignia and replied: "The only presidential insignia, which is worn only at official events, is the presidential chain, which was stolen from the deported president of Estonia, Konstantin Pats. At present it is in Moscow, the rubies have been cut out of it. The chain has been stolen. This is the former symbol of the president of an independent state. Estonia is attempting to achieve its return. I don’t know, is it worth asking a thief to give back your property? If he does not want to do this, at the end of the day, you draw your own conclusion about the ethical level of this thief. What else?" <\/p>\n

Estonia wants democratic Russia <\/p>\n

A presenter recalled that according to polls, over half of people in Russia see Estonia as an unfriendly state and invited Ilves to address this majority. Ilves had the following to say: "I believe it is mostly in the interests of Estonia for Russia to be a democratic state, a successful state and a liberal state. I am convinced that in a democratic liberal state in which there is the freedom of mass media, the understanding about Estonia would be totally different. This would be the most important thing for us. <\/p>\n

"Of course we regret that this percentage is high but for our part we ask: is this due to objective reasons or is this due to how the electronic mass media portrays us. We would very much like for Russia to be a country were rights of minorities are respected. Where people whose names end with -shvili or -adze [i.e. Georgian names] would not need to be concerned about their destiny. Where after the third form children of the Mari people could study in their mother tongue – we offer our minorities the opportunity to study up to the 12th form in their mother tongue. We would like to see that Georgian children would not experience difficulties. These are the things we haven’t spoken about, but this should be the background to the issues we are considering. <\/p>\n

"My vision of Russia is actually similar to [Vasiliy] Aksenov’s novel The Island of Crimea: if the Crime had been an island and the Bolshevik revolution had not reached it, there would have been a liberal Russia of the Constitutional Democrats, the Cadets, and neither Tartars nor anyone else would have been oppressed and there would have been good relations with everyone. This is my dream of Russia." <\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

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